Zuck on: * Llama 4, benchmark gaming * Intelligence explosion, business models for AGI * DeepSeek/China, export controls, & Trump * Orion glasses, AI relationships, and preventing reward-hacking from our tech. Watch on Youtube ; listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify . ---------- SPONSORS * Scale is building the infrastructure for safer, smarter AI. Scale’s Data Foundry gives major AI labs access to high-quality data to fuel post-training, while their public leaderboards help assess model capabilities. They also just released Scale Evaluation, a new tool that diagnoses model limitations. If you’re an AI researcher or engineer, learn how Scale can help you push the frontier at scale.com/dwarkesh . * WorkOS Radar protects your product against bots, fraud, and abuse. Radar uses 80+ signals to identify and block common threats and harmful behavior. Join companies like Cursor, Perplexity, and OpenAI that have eliminated costly free-tier abuse by visiting workos.com/radar . * Lambda is THE cloud for AI developers, with over 50,000 NVIDIA GPUs ready to go for startups, enterprises, and hyperscalers. By focusing exclusively on AI, Lambda provides cost-effective compute supported by true experts, including a serverless API serving top open-source models like Llama 4 or DeepSeek V3-0324 without rate limits, and available for a free trial at lambda.ai/dwarkesh . To sponsor a future episode, visit dwarkesh.com/p/advertise . ---------- TIMESTAMPS (00:00:00) – How Llama 4 compares to other models (00:11:34) – Intelligence explosion (00:26:36) – AI friends, therapists & girlfriends (00:35:10) – DeepSeek & China (00:39:49) – Open source AI (00:54:15) – Monetizing AGI (00:58:32) – The role of a CEO (01:02:04) – Is big tech aligning with Trump? (01:07:10) – 100x productivity Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe