involved in Printing Press but uh Trevan at least studied computer science in college but for the last I don't know how long he's worked 20 years 15 years he has been a product person VP of product like um chief product officer and now he's running Compound Engineering and number one contributor to Compound Engineering and he has not written to the best of my knowledge not written a line of software since college. And look at the lines of code that he's doing and again I'm incompetent he's competent right if you look at our base skill sets but like I'd say that there's a a very different type of person that can be very very successful right now. >> That's amazing yeah cuz I think as VP of